Godless Girl

Was Jesus real? Can we trust the Bible? Is it always true?

On a web forum, one woman defended the reality of Jesus and the divine inspiration of the Biblical text. Below, I’ve included her points and my responses. I would love to flesh-out these points more in later posts.

[Said in response to a non-theist's point that you can believe a religious leader was a good person with worthwhile points and not have faith in him or believe he was a prophet]
Joseph Smith was a false prophet as is any other person in history whose prophecies have failed

But even Jesus didn’t even fulfill all the prophesies (supposedly) about him. He apparently has to come back a second time to finish them all.

Did some of these folks have good things to say, sure, but none of them performed miracles, none of them fulfilled hundreds of prophecies from hundreds of years before their birth.

On the point of miracles: Besides the stories told in the Bible, there is (to my knowledge) no recorded evidence of any kind to say any of those miracles happened, I’m afraid. There are no independent writings, no scientific/empirical evidence, and it is much more likely (by an immensely large number) that the stories were embellished, made up, or there was observer error than if there had been an actual suspension of the constant laws of nature (which is what a miracle is).

On the point of prophecy: The gospel books were written by unknown authors (they are attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but so far as I’ve found in my bit of research, there is no evidence to be sure of who wrote them) and were all written at least 50 years after Jesus lived. It would not be unthinkable nor impossible that his followers could write his story to fit certain (often vague) passages in the Tanakh to convince others that he was a prophet and the Jewish Messiah.

I guess those things can be easily dismissed as “that was written by man and man is fallible.” Like I said earlier, the Bible would have to have been a HUGE conspiracy put together by an abnormally large amount of very smart people to support that argument.

I don’t think it would have had to be a malicious conspiracy–just the legends, mythology, prayers, and fantastic stories collected by a people over a long amount of time.

The Bible is not only full of historical accuracy that has been proven, it is also full of scientific accuracy about things that weren’t even proven by science until hundreds of years after they were written in the Bible (like the roundness of the earth or the importance of blood or atmospheric circulation). How could these things be without some kind of divine inspiration?

It is a very fascinating book to study!

But I disagree that its historical and scientific accuracy proves it to be divinely inspired. For one thing, many novels and myths contain historically accurate settings (kings, wars, events, locations, etc.) but that does not make them true or divinely inspired.

For example, Horatio Hornblower is a sea captain in the Napoleonic era who fought for England. He was a hero who rose through the ranks of the British Navy. He sailed the seas, fought in battles… but he was made up by C.S. Forester for a series of novels. Even though many of the events or people in these books have a (proven) historical basis, that does not make Hornblower,his crews, nor ships real.

As for science, I am still waiting for the evidence to support plants and trees coming before sunlight (according to the Creation story), humans being over 900 years old, a global flood, a man living inside a whale/fish for three days, a tower being the cause of language diversity, the sun stopping its movements in the sky (Joshua 6 [show] Now Jericho was shut up inside and outside because of the people of Israel. None went out, and none came in. And the LORD said to Joshua, "See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and mighty men of valor. You shall march around the city, all the men of war going around the city once. Thus shall you do for six days. Seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark. On the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets. And when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, when you hear the sound of the trumpet, then all the people shall shout with a great shout, and the wall of the city will fall down flat, and the people shall go up, everyone straight before him." So Joshua the son of Nun called the priests and said to them, "Take up the ark of the covenant and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the LORD." And he said to the people, "Go forward. March around the city and let the armed men pass on before the ark of the LORD." And just as Joshua had commanded the people, the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns before the LORD went forward, blowing the trumpets, with the ark of the covenant of the LORD following them. The armed men were walking before the priests who were blowing the trumpets, and the rear guard was walking after the ark, while the trumpets blew continually. But Joshua commanded the people, "You shall not shout or make your voice heard, neither shall any word go out of your mouth, until the day I tell you to shout. Then you shall shout." So he caused the ark of the LORD to circle the city, going about it once. And they came into the camp and spent the night in the camp. Then Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the LORD. And the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the LORD walked on, and they blew the trumpets continually. And the armed men were walking before them, and the rear guard was walking after the ark of the LORD, while the trumpets blew continually. And the second day they marched around the city once, and returned into the camp. So they did for six days. On the seventh day they rose early, at the dawn of day, and marched around the city in the same manner seven times. It was only on that day that they marched around the city seven times. And at the seventh time, when the priests had blown the trumpets, Joshua said to the people, "Shout, for the LORD has given you the city. And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent. But you, keep yourselves from the things devoted to destruction, lest when you have devoted them you take any of the devoted things and make the camp of Israel a thing for destruction and bring trouble upon it. But all silver and gold, and every vessel of bronze and iron, are holy to the LORD; they shall go into the treasury of the LORD." So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people shouted a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they captured the city. Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword. But to the two men who had spied out the land, Joshua said, "Go into the prostitute's house and bring out from there the woman and all who belong to her, as you swore to her." So the young men who had been spies went in and brought out Rahab and her father and mother and brothers and all who belonged to her. And they brought all her relatives and put them outside the camp of Israel. And they burned the city with fire, and everything in it. Only the silver and gold, and the vessels of bronze and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. But Rahab the prostitute and her father's household and all who belonged to her, Joshua saved alive. And she has lived in Israel to this day, because she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. Joshua laid an oath on them at that time, saying, "Cursed before the LORD be the man who rises up and rebuilds this city, Jericho. "At the cost of his firstborn shall he lay its foundation, and at the cost of his youngest son shall he set up its gates." So the LORD was with Joshua, and his fame was in all the land. (ESV)
), an immovable earth (why Galileo was killed for his heliocentric views), talking donkeys, four legged locusts, half angel/half human creatures, etc. etc.

I think The Bible can hold much insight and many lessons on life and loving. I think it’s a religious text and should be read as a cultural portrait filled wit poetry, metaphor, fact, inaccuracies, insight, wisdom, and story. My belief is that it should not be a history book, nor a scientific text. That, I believe, is not its purpose at all.

Tuesday, March 31st, 2009, 10:17 am   |   Jesus, christianity, history, science, the bible  |  RSS feed |  Respond  |  Trackback