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	<title>Comments on: Your Daily Woo: Parents Refuse Chemo for Kid &amp; Choose Mud Instead</title>
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	<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/</link>
	<description>... and her adventures in Atheism</description>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1128</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1128</guid>
		<description>Hi Heather,
I am  with you we are going through chemo and radiation with my daughter at the moment and it is horrible, we have never believed in it and we are wanting to stop, we know it is up to the doctor to agree with us , if we refuse they can take our daughter off us.
she is only three and half
do you know of any other thing that we might be able to use in our favour to help him agree with us to stop the treatment 
thanks michelle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Heather,<br />
I am  with you we are going through chemo and radiation with my daughter at the moment and it is horrible, we have never believed in it and we are wanting to stop, we know it is up to the doctor to agree with us , if we refuse they can take our daughter off us.<br />
she is only three and half<br />
do you know of any other thing that we might be able to use in our favour to help him agree with us to stop the treatment<br />
thanks michelle</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1030</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1030</guid>
		<description>Kim, you don&#039;t provide a reference for your data, but I presume that that you are refering to the findings in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15630849&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;paper&lt;/a&gt; &quot;The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies&quot;. The ~2% figure is derived from a meta-analysis, and it has been criticised. For instance, it covers a range of cancers rather than specific, individual cancers. The type of cancer one has is important in determining the effectiveness of chemo. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s1348333.htm&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for one critique. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim, you don&#039;t provide a reference for your data, but I presume that that you are refering to the findings in the <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15630849" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">paper</a> &quot;The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies&quot;. The ~2% figure is derived from a meta-analysis, and it has been criticised. For instance, it covers a range of cancers rather than specific, individual cancers. The type of cancer one has is important in determining the effectiveness of chemo. See <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s1348333.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> for one critique.</p>
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		<title>By: The Big Blue Frog</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Blue Frog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>Your line of reasoning doesn&#039;t make any sense, Kim. Lots of potential &quot;treatments&quot; for cancer haven&#039;t been proven ineffective, simply because there&#039;s no logical reason that they would be effective. I could just as easily say, using your argument, that suspending people by their ankles for days at a time is a valid treatment for cancer, as the effects of suspending people for days at a time by their ankles has never been proven ineffective at curing cancer. In the same way, I could make up any quack treatment, from shaking chicken feet over the patient to smearing them with feces, and by applying your argument, prove that they are valid treatments because they have never been proven ineffective. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your line of reasoning doesn&#039;t make any sense, Kim. Lots of potential &quot;treatments&quot; for cancer haven&#039;t been proven ineffective, simply because there&#039;s no logical reason that they would be effective. I could just as easily say, using your argument, that suspending people by their ankles for days at a time is a valid treatment for cancer, as the effects of suspending people for days at a time by their ankles has never been proven ineffective at curing cancer. In the same way, I could make up any quack treatment, from shaking chicken feet over the patient to smearing them with feces, and by applying your argument, prove that they are valid treatments because they have never been proven ineffective.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Heather.   
 
Those who feel that chemotherapy is the better or proven treatment for cancer should take a closer look at the statistics. Especially those not affiliated to industries that gain economically from the multi billion dollar chemotherapy treatment.  It i true the survival or cure rate for chemotherapy is not 0%.  The most recent study looking at survival rates in 22 types of adult cancers showed that while in Australia the survival rate is 60%, chemotherapy only helped to &#039;cure&#039; 2.1% of this.  In the US it&#039;s estimated at 2.3%.  So it&#039;s not 0% it&#039;s 2.1%.  For all the pain, suffering and cost, and the side effects that can kill you, nevermind the cancer!   
 
I would guess that mud might have as good a chance! 
 
The religious element was thrown into this &#039; documentary&#039;  purely for emotive reasons - and I can see from this forum that it&#039;s got the response it was after. A lot of religion vs science mumbo jumbo if you ask me.  This family made this decision because this is the treatment they chose for their daughter, they didn&#039;t want chemotherapy.  That they happen to be religious and follow a certain faith is by the by.  Had they chosen chemotherapy, they would be using the same justifications about God&#039;s will. 
 
You may think mud or tea or herbal treatment is mumbo jumbo, and it might well be.  And you might think that belief in God is mum jumbo, and it might well be.  But what the facts seem to be  that this family truly believe in the curative properties of this mud and tea treatment, as some of you truly believe in the curative properties of chemotherapy.  The difference is, mud hasn&#039;t been proven ineffective, but chemotherapy pretty much has!  Except in a very small percentage of cancer patients. 
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Heather.   </p>
<p>Those who feel that chemotherapy is the better or proven treatment for cancer should take a closer look at the statistics. Especially those not affiliated to industries that gain economically from the multi billion dollar chemotherapy treatment.  It i true the survival or cure rate for chemotherapy is not 0%.  The most recent study looking at survival rates in 22 types of adult cancers showed that while in Australia the survival rate is 60%, chemotherapy only helped to &#039;cure&#039; 2.1% of this.  In the US it&#039;s estimated at 2.3%.  So it&#039;s not 0% it&#039;s 2.1%.  For all the pain, suffering and cost, and the side effects that can kill you, nevermind the cancer!   </p>
<p>I would guess that mud might have as good a chance! </p>
<p>The religious element was thrown into this &#039; documentary&#039;  purely for emotive reasons &#8211; and I can see from this forum that it&#039;s got the response it was after. A lot of religion vs science mumbo jumbo if you ask me.  This family made this decision because this is the treatment they chose for their daughter, they didn&#039;t want chemotherapy.  That they happen to be religious and follow a certain faith is by the by.  Had they chosen chemotherapy, they would be using the same justifications about God&#039;s will. </p>
<p>You may think mud or tea or herbal treatment is mumbo jumbo, and it might well be.  And you might think that belief in God is mum jumbo, and it might well be.  But what the facts seem to be  that this family truly believe in the curative properties of this mud and tea treatment, as some of you truly believe in the curative properties of chemotherapy.  The difference is, mud hasn&#039;t been proven ineffective, but chemotherapy pretty much has!  Except in a very small percentage of cancer patients.</p>
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		<title>By: PGreen</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1135</link>
		<dc:creator>PGreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1135</guid>
		<description>I am sorry your career as a nurse has made you such a twisted individual with a vendetta against chemotherapy and a complete disregard for the evidence. 
 
Chemotherapy can sometimes be the only life-saving option. 
 
If this girl is not yet terminal, how should she be treated?  In your world, she should be left to die. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry your career as a nurse has made you such a twisted individual with a vendetta against chemotherapy and a complete disregard for the evidence. </p>
<p>Chemotherapy can sometimes be the only life-saving option. </p>
<p>If this girl is not yet terminal, how should she be treated?  In your world, she should be left to die.</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1134</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1134</guid>
		<description>&quot;These parents are heros in my eyes. They are not stupid, or ignorant. They know what they are up against and they&#039;ve chosen what they feel is best for their terminal ill child.&quot; 
 
You have got be joking me Heather.  These parents are irresponsible and deluded and completely ignoring good evidence.  How are they acting in the poor girl&#039;s best interests when the only evidence-based clinically proven therapy for her is to receive chemotherapy specific for her tumour type?  That chemotherapy has side-effects is why specialists ie. oncologists need to make a clinical judgement about the risks and benefits in every individual case.  Hair loss may be a side-effect, but at least chemotherapy has proven efficacy unlike mud. 
 
And why are you labelling the girl&#039;s condition as terminal?  It may very well be if the parent&#039;s don&#039;t act swiftly (unfortunately they don&#039;t seem to be), but you are essentially saying it is OKAY for all children with cancer to die and be left to die and not be offered the one therapy that might save them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;These parents are heros in my eyes. They are not stupid, or ignorant. They know what they are up against and they&#039;ve chosen what they feel is best for their terminal ill child.&quot; </p>
<p>You have got be joking me Heather.  These parents are irresponsible and deluded and completely ignoring good evidence.  How are they acting in the poor girl&#039;s best interests when the only evidence-based clinically proven therapy for her is to receive chemotherapy specific for her tumour type?  That chemotherapy has side-effects is why specialists ie. oncologists need to make a clinical judgement about the risks and benefits in every individual case.  Hair loss may be a side-effect, but at least chemotherapy has proven efficacy unlike mud. </p>
<p>And why are you labelling the girl&#039;s condition as terminal?  It may very well be if the parent&#039;s don&#039;t act swiftly (unfortunately they don&#039;t seem to be), but you are essentially saying it is OKAY for all children with cancer to die and be left to die and not be offered the one therapy that might save them.</p>
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		<title>By: Matty</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Matty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>This is absolutely tragic.  A perfect example of how woo and religion can kill.   God decides her fate? 
 
And @Heather, you should be ashamed.  You are a paediatric nurse for crying out loud.  Clearly your personal crusade against &quot;patriarchal doctors&quot; and the &quot;medical establishment&quot; is clouding your judgement about what is in the best interests of this poor girl. You say &quot;The sad reality is that the little girl will die no matter what you do. I&#039;ve seen what chemotherapy does to a person&quot; - how do you know she is going to die? Do you know the prognosis of her condition?  Are you medically trained to understand that? 
 
Chemotherapy saves lives.  Yes, of course, it can and does have side-effects, frequently severe.  These need to be considered. If a person&#039;s medical prognosis as assessed by an oncology doctor (not a nurse, who has NO training to do this) is terminal , then good palliative care needs to be offered - this is good medicine to know when not to be overly aggressive with therapies when the chance of survival is so poor.  To someone who is also in the medical/health profession, I find your comments completely irresponsible.   
 
&quot;The costs in severe cancer treated with chemotherapy are horrific.&quot;  Well Heather, the costs in severe cancer without any sort of therapy is usually death. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absolutely tragic.  A perfect example of how woo and religion can kill.   God decides her fate? </p>
<p>And @Heather, you should be ashamed.  You are a paediatric nurse for crying out loud.  Clearly your personal crusade against &quot;patriarchal doctors&quot; and the &quot;medical establishment&quot; is clouding your judgement about what is in the best interests of this poor girl. You say &quot;The sad reality is that the little girl will die no matter what you do. I&#039;ve seen what chemotherapy does to a person&quot; &#8211; how do you know she is going to die? Do you know the prognosis of her condition?  Are you medically trained to understand that? </p>
<p>Chemotherapy saves lives.  Yes, of course, it can and does have side-effects, frequently severe.  These need to be considered. If a person&#039;s medical prognosis as assessed by an oncology doctor (not a nurse, who has NO training to do this) is terminal , then good palliative care needs to be offered &#8211; this is good medicine to know when not to be overly aggressive with therapies when the chance of survival is so poor.  To someone who is also in the medical/health profession, I find your comments completely irresponsible.   </p>
<p>&quot;The costs in severe cancer treated with chemotherapy are horrific.&quot;  Well Heather, the costs in severe cancer without any sort of therapy is usually death.</p>
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		<title>By: The Big Blue Frog</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-949</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Blue Frog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-949</guid>
		<description>This is tragic and crazy. There&#039;s a line where parental rights must be judged against the well-being of the child. They&#039;re way beyond that point. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is tragic and crazy. There&#039;s a line where parental rights must be judged against the well-being of the child. They&#039;re way beyond that point.</p>
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		<title>By: @AtheistinWA</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-932</link>
		<dc:creator>@AtheistinWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-932</guid>
		<description>This just breaks my heart, that girl is obviously suffering and her parents are being ignorant of the reality. They&#039;re not protecting her by having the clay treatment, only condemning her to a slow, painful death. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This just breaks my heart, that girl is obviously suffering and her parents are being ignorant of the reality. They&#039;re not protecting her by having the clay treatment, only condemning her to a slow, painful death.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/10/your-daily-woo-parents-refuse-chemo-for-kid-choose-mud-instead/comment-page-1/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1142#comment-930</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why do Doctors insist that they know best? Because they have an ego the size of Montana and they are not the ones in the bed.&lt;/i&gt; 
 
Perhaps it&#039;s because they have training and expertise in their field that qualifies them to make medical decisions. Yeah, that could be it. 
 
And even if they did have egos the size of Montana, that wouldn&#039;t alter what we know based on the findings of medical research, reasearch based on that thing commonly known as reality. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Why do Doctors insist that they know best? Because they have an ego the size of Montana and they are not the ones in the bed.</i> </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#039;s because they have training and expertise in their field that qualifies them to make medical decisions. Yeah, that could be it. </p>
<p>And even if they did have egos the size of Montana, that wouldn&#039;t alter what we know based on the findings of medical research, reasearch based on that thing commonly known as reality.</p>
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