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	<title>Comments on: Am I Lying?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/</link>
	<description>... and her adventures in Atheism</description>
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		<title>By: okfine</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2599</link>
		<dc:creator>okfine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2599</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little late to this party but.. hello! new reader here. 
I too have avoided telling certain members of my family. I don&#039;t want to deal with disapproval, condescension, debate, etc. and I am pretty thoroughly convinced that I shouldn&#039;t have to. I can relate to the feeling that one is lying or hiding, but when you are doing so to protect yourself or others from someone&#039;s totally unreasonable response, I&#039;m not seeing the wrong. 
I guess I view dealing with the superstitious sort of like caring for dementia patients. If intruding upon their skewed vision of reality will definitely produce a completely unreasonable, negative response, while providing no increase to anyone&#039;s wellbeing, there&#039;s sort of no point. 
Is it unfair to compare them to dementia patients?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little late to this party but.. hello! new reader here.<br />
I too have avoided telling certain members of my family. I don&#8217;t want to deal with disapproval, condescension, debate, etc. and I am pretty thoroughly convinced that I shouldn&#8217;t have to. I can relate to the feeling that one is lying or hiding, but when you are doing so to protect yourself or others from someone&#8217;s totally unreasonable response, I&#8217;m not seeing the wrong.<br />
I guess I view dealing with the superstitious sort of like caring for dementia patients. If intruding upon their skewed vision of reality will definitely produce a completely unreasonable, negative response, while providing no increase to anyone&#8217;s wellbeing, there&#8217;s sort of no point.<br />
Is it unfair to compare them to dementia patients?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2566</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2566</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughtful response Godless, and you are right I think &quot;lying&quot; was a poor choice of word.  It doesn&#039;t seem as though you are intentionally trying to sustain the illusion for your brother, which is a good thing.

But I do think that there is a difference between keeping your beliefs or lack thereof to yourself and allowing someone to draw a conclusion about your beliefs that is not true.

I&#039;m projecting - for some reason I find myself dating religious girls and I have a hard time really telling them what I believe.  I won&#039;t say that I believe in God, but I won&#039;t exactly say no either.  At least not as emphatically as I think in my head.  Maybe that&#039;s me thinking with my &quot;other head,&quot; or maybe I can rationalize it with the idea of easing them into a difficult idea, but it still bothers me that I have allowed myself to do this.

As far as the use of the word sin, yes I&#039;m reappropriating the term for secular use :) - Sin to me is betrayal which seems to fit in this context... though maybe the word is just too loaded for widespread useage.

As to it taking years to achieve normalcy, I would say each family is different.  I know of some families who simply ignore their non-believing relatives.  Luckily I am from a family who, though very conservative and religious, is very close and is also peppered with a couple other non believers.  I think at first my family was more afraid that I was going to reject them, that I was gone, not coming back, they were going to lose me etc.  After a few years of being there for Christmas Thanksgiving etc and demonstrating that I am still ME, they have realized that I still am me.  Like other commenters have said, most families are bigger than what religion they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response Godless, and you are right I think &#8220;lying&#8221; was a poor choice of word.  It doesn&#8217;t seem as though you are intentionally trying to sustain the illusion for your brother, which is a good thing.</p>
<p>But I do think that there is a difference between keeping your beliefs or lack thereof to yourself and allowing someone to draw a conclusion about your beliefs that is not true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m projecting &#8211; for some reason I find myself dating religious girls and I have a hard time really telling them what I believe.  I won&#8217;t say that I believe in God, but I won&#8217;t exactly say no either.  At least not as emphatically as I think in my head.  Maybe that&#8217;s me thinking with my &#8220;other head,&#8221; or maybe I can rationalize it with the idea of easing them into a difficult idea, but it still bothers me that I have allowed myself to do this.</p>
<p>As far as the use of the word sin, yes I&#8217;m reappropriating the term for secular use <img src='http://www.godlessgirl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  &#8211; Sin to me is betrayal which seems to fit in this context&#8230; though maybe the word is just too loaded for widespread useage.</p>
<p>As to it taking years to achieve normalcy, I would say each family is different.  I know of some families who simply ignore their non-believing relatives.  Luckily I am from a family who, though very conservative and religious, is very close and is also peppered with a couple other non believers.  I think at first my family was more afraid that I was going to reject them, that I was gone, not coming back, they were going to lose me etc.  After a few years of being there for Christmas Thanksgiving etc and demonstrating that I am still ME, they have realized that I still am me.  Like other commenters have said, most families are bigger than what religion they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Godless Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2552</link>
		<dc:creator>Godless Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2552</guid>
		<description>I love that story about your grandmother. :)
I hope I find out more interesting things about my friends and family as I continually come out to them. A good number know already, so compared to one year ago, I&#039;ve come leaps and bounds! There really is no smooth way to tell all my relatives at once without it sounding stupid (I don&#039;t like the idea of letters or announcements, for instance). I think with the extended family--unless people talk to me directly about it--I&#039;ll be leaving it up to whoever gives a fuck telling someone else who might possibly give a fuck. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that story about your grandmother. <img src='http://www.godlessgirl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I hope I find out more interesting things about my friends and family as I continually come out to them. A good number know already, so compared to one year ago, I&#8217;ve come leaps and bounds! There really is no smooth way to tell all my relatives at once without it sounding stupid (I don&#8217;t like the idea of letters or announcements, for instance). I think with the extended family&#8211;unless people talk to me directly about it&#8211;I&#8217;ll be leaving it up to whoever gives a fuck telling someone else who might possibly give a fuck. <img src='http://www.godlessgirl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mcbender</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2548</link>
		<dc:creator>mcbender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2548</guid>
		<description>Speaking personally, I&#039;m not the sort of person who could keep that sort of thing hidden.  I&#039;m compulsively honest to a fault (incidentally, my parents have been trying to cure me of that since I was young, but it never seems to have worked).  It&#039;s gotten me in sticky situations before, i.e., I think it got me close to losing a job because I explicitly contradicted a superior during a meeting, that sort of thing.

As such, I could never do what you&#039;re doing.  As far as I personally am concerned, I would rather be honest with somebody and if it ruins my relationship with them, so be it; I&#039;d rather have an honest falling-out than retain a relationship under false pretences.

I can understand what keeps you going on in the way you are - I&#039;ve seen it happen before.  My parents, for instance, always tell me to keep quiet about my atheism so I don&#039;t scare people off (and I know that&#039;s what they do)... but I can&#039;t do that.  It feels dishonest to me.

When talking to my relations about atheism, I&#039;ve actually made some surprising discoveries.  My grandmother, for instance, I would never have expected to be an atheist - her husband was, but she always acted very religious, went to synagogue every morning, etc.  Upon talking to her I discovered that she actually doesn&#039;t really believe any of it, she just goes to synagogue for the company and thinks it would be really nice if it were true (but knows it isn&#039;t).  Hearing her say that absolutely floored me... but she won&#039;t say so to anybody else...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking personally, I&#8217;m not the sort of person who could keep that sort of thing hidden.  I&#8217;m compulsively honest to a fault (incidentally, my parents have been trying to cure me of that since I was young, but it never seems to have worked).  It&#8217;s gotten me in sticky situations before, i.e., I think it got me close to losing a job because I explicitly contradicted a superior during a meeting, that sort of thing.</p>
<p>As such, I could never do what you&#8217;re doing.  As far as I personally am concerned, I would rather be honest with somebody and if it ruins my relationship with them, so be it; I&#8217;d rather have an honest falling-out than retain a relationship under false pretences.</p>
<p>I can understand what keeps you going on in the way you are &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen it happen before.  My parents, for instance, always tell me to keep quiet about my atheism so I don&#8217;t scare people off (and I know that&#8217;s what they do)&#8230; but I can&#8217;t do that.  It feels dishonest to me.</p>
<p>When talking to my relations about atheism, I&#8217;ve actually made some surprising discoveries.  My grandmother, for instance, I would never have expected to be an atheist &#8211; her husband was, but she always acted very religious, went to synagogue every morning, etc.  Upon talking to her I discovered that she actually doesn&#8217;t really believe any of it, she just goes to synagogue for the company and thinks it would be really nice if it were true (but knows it isn&#8217;t).  Hearing her say that absolutely floored me&#8230; but she won&#8217;t say so to anybody else&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Godless Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2546</link>
		<dc:creator>Godless Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 05:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2546</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your concern. It&#039;ll happen someday soon, probably. I&#039;m not in a rush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your concern. It&#8217;ll happen someday soon, probably. I&#8217;m not in a rush.</p>
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		<title>By: doctor(logic)</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2545</link>
		<dc:creator>doctor(logic)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 03:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2545</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s worth the risk for you.  One picks one&#039;s battles.  As you say, you&#039;re not lying if you&#039;re being discreet.  

You seem to be pursuing a rational strategy based on how you feel about the projected outcomes.

In case it&#039;s relevant, I&#039;ll add that we&#039;re not obligated to deconvert those closest to us.  (As I like to say, the Borg do not assimilate individuals.)  Writing blogs, letters to the editor, etc, is an effective way to work for the cause.  Futile or personally expensive efforts to deconvert those closest to us (family, co-workers, clients, etc.), may actually reduce our overall effectiveness for the cause.
.-= doctor(logic)&#039;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://doctorlogic.blogspot.com/2009/10/argument-against-libertarian-free-will.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;An Argument Against Libertarian Free Will&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s worth the risk for you.  One picks one&#8217;s battles.  As you say, you&#8217;re not lying if you&#8217;re being discreet.  </p>
<p>You seem to be pursuing a rational strategy based on how you feel about the projected outcomes.</p>
<p>In case it&#8217;s relevant, I&#8217;ll add that we&#8217;re not obligated to deconvert those closest to us.  (As I like to say, the Borg do not assimilate individuals.)  Writing blogs, letters to the editor, etc, is an effective way to work for the cause.  Futile or personally expensive efforts to deconvert those closest to us (family, co-workers, clients, etc.), may actually reduce our overall effectiveness for the cause.<br />
.-= doctor(logic)&#8217;s last blog ..<a href="http://doctorlogic.blogspot.com/2009/10/argument-against-libertarian-free-will.html" rel="nofollow">An Argument Against Libertarian Free Will</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2544</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2544</guid>
		<description>It sounds like nothing anyone says will convince you to talk to your family. You seem to cling tightly to remarks that support keeping it a secret for a while arguing against points that support you talking to your brother. This is totally okay, I&#039;m not trying to make a statement about you being right or wrong either way. I think its okay either way and you have every right to share as little or as much as you want to with your family. It does seem that it is something that weighs on your mind and heart though, so much so that you make multiple blog posts surrounding this topic. Would it be nice to be free from it and just let yourself be out there? Maybe not. Maybe it would be negative. I think I just want your heart to feel light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like nothing anyone says will convince you to talk to your family. You seem to cling tightly to remarks that support keeping it a secret for a while arguing against points that support you talking to your brother. This is totally okay, I&#8217;m not trying to make a statement about you being right or wrong either way. I think its okay either way and you have every right to share as little or as much as you want to with your family. It does seem that it is something that weighs on your mind and heart though, so much so that you make multiple blog posts surrounding this topic. Would it be nice to be free from it and just let yourself be out there? Maybe not. Maybe it would be negative. I think I just want your heart to feel light.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2543</guid>
		<description>Sorry to hear that you have to keep your atheism in the closet. I was raised Mormon but I officially left the church at 18; I&#039;m atheist. My father supported my decision because he encouraged critical thinking and respects my reasons for disbelieving. 

My family isn&#039;t very large, but they all know I&#039;m atheist. My step-mother is somewhat &quot;agnostic&quot;, I also have an atheist Uncle and half-sister. Perhaps it runs in the family. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to hear that you have to keep your atheism in the closet. I was raised Mormon but I officially left the church at 18; I&#8217;m atheist. My father supported my decision because he encouraged critical thinking and respects my reasons for disbelieving. </p>
<p>My family isn&#8217;t very large, but they all know I&#8217;m atheist. My step-mother is somewhat &#8220;agnostic&#8221;, I also have an atheist Uncle and half-sister. Perhaps it runs in the family. <img src='http://www.godlessgirl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mj</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2542</link>
		<dc:creator>mj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2542</guid>
		<description>simply blaspheme against the holy spirit to your brother.  then you can&#039;t ever be saved, and his arguements are irrelevant.

more seriously, many of us are in the closet to some extent, whether at work, or within a family or a social group.  it&#039;s not cowardice and it&#039;s certainly not sinning.  it is a matter of convenience, nothing more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>simply blaspheme against the holy spirit to your brother.  then you can&#8217;t ever be saved, and his arguements are irrelevant.</p>
<p>more seriously, many of us are in the closet to some extent, whether at work, or within a family or a social group.  it&#8217;s not cowardice and it&#8217;s certainly not sinning.  it is a matter of convenience, nothing more.</p>
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		<title>By: Roof Woofer</title>
		<link>http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/04/am-i-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-2538</link>
		<dc:creator>Roof Woofer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.godlessgirl.com/?p=1918#comment-2538</guid>
		<description>I think I remember a past post where you talked about your family acting &quot;as Christian as they can&quot; around you. Maybe they weren&#039;t treating you like &quot;just an atheist&quot; but just being themselves. Oh, who knows.
.-= Roof Woofer&#039;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/RoofWoofer/statuses/11912010587&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RoofWoofer: @crispysea Hard to dialogue when one side insists the other is stupid/obstinate because they&#039;re so sure they&#039;re right. Fund&#039;ism goes 2 ways.&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I remember a past post where you talked about your family acting &#8220;as Christian as they can&#8221; around you. Maybe they weren&#8217;t treating you like &#8220;just an atheist&#8221; but just being themselves. Oh, who knows.<br />
.-= Roof Woofer&#8217;s last blog ..<a href="http://twitter.com/RoofWoofer/statuses/11912010587" rel="nofollow">RoofWoofer: @crispysea Hard to dialogue when one side insists the other is stupid/obstinate because they&#8217;re so sure they&#8217;re right. Fund&#8217;ism goes 2 ways.</a> =-.</p>
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